Pale Waves are soon to be Touring the top middle and bottom of the UK including Glasgow (song reference) with the album Smitten about a year in the public domain. This could be a chance to see how it has bedded in with the dedicated fans away from the Festival circuit. Thoughts will then I am sure turn to the next musical project for Pale Waves? The never ending wheel of time means your latest album soon becomes your last album so it is onwards and upwards...

Time is such an uncontrollable force, we are always attempting to catch up with it. In the world of music where deadlines and promotion are a necessary way of life it must be extremely hard to keep your head above water and focused on the next task. I asked Heather Baron-Gracie how she copes with the time constraints and regular Promotion?

Heather Baron-Gracie: “It is pretty chaotic. Well, I guess with each cycle, there's new material, so it feels like you're talking about something new. I think I would definitely get really sick of it if I was just talking about the same record year after year. I wouldn't be able to do that, to be honest. But there's always something new, so that definitely helps. You're not just repeating yourself”..

Return To Sound: “Current promotion is for the upcoming Tour which I guess is to celebrate the Smitten album and now it has been around for about a year. Are you satisfied with how it has been artistically received?”

HBG: “Yeah, I'm satisfied with what we did artistically, but I'm never quite satisfied with where we're at as a band. I always want to be 10 more steps above where we currently are. You know, I'm grateful for what we have, but I would love for more”.

RTS: “That’s interesting, has there been a sort of checklist of things that you've been working through since forming the band, for instance?”

HBG:”I guess so. I guess you have your highlights. Like at the start, oh, we would love to headline the Ritz (Venue in Manchester) one day. We've already done that and we're doing that again on this tour. So I'm very excited about that. You know, I want to be at least playing Brixton!”.

RTS: “Academy, I hope, and not the local pub?”

HBG: “Yeah, exactly. Although the local pub would be fun. But yeah, bigger venues, just bigger crowds. That's what I desire for us to reach more people. But it takes time”.

RTS: “Definitely takes time. It does, I mean, for some it can also happen very instantly. . that's not always a good thing because you can crash and burn. It seems to me already seeing you and obviously doing a bit of research, you are quite grounded and doing things in a sensible way?”

HBG: “ Yeah, honestly, I do feel like that. I feel like I write the songs, but then I spend more time managing the whole project and the business side of it. There's so much that goes into being an artist these days. And I think if you want to be... If you want to get the most out of it, then you have to be on everything. You know, budgets, deadlines, to be involved in. I don't just trust other people to do it”. 

RTS: “You must have managers, etc?”

HBG: “Yes, Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely”.

RTS: “Do you feel like you're ultimately in control of everything and there's no surprises that can happen to you?”

HBG: “Yeah, definitely, especially more so recently because we switched up a few things. So we have a new team and I've made it very transparent. You know, this is how I want to operate and I want to see basically everything that goes in and goes out”.

RTS: “That's definitely an advantage. I mean, a lot of people have made those mistakes historically. I'm sure you've read stories?”

HBG: “Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it is less likely now. There is a lot more transparency”

RTS: “Would you see yourself as the leader or are you more democratic with the band?”

HBG: “No, I would definitely say that I am in control of things just because I don't think they want to do that. You know, they're just not interested. That's just not what they want to do and they know that I'm going to do it, so they let me do it. Does that make sense? They know that I always have the best intention for Pale Waves, so they trust me to do it”. 

RTS: Regarding the sound of Smitten did the band have an input? Such as the guitar which as you've freely spoken about, you've got some obvious influences. Does Hugo (Silvani) have a say over how that sounded?”

HBG: “It varies, honestly, track to track, but Hugo very much does love production and loves geeking out and loves diving into all of his guitar tones, he will spend hours on them. Whereas me, I can't spend hours just focusing on the guitar sound because there's just so much that I need to focus on. So to him, I will say, try and emulate this sound or get me a sound that sounds like this and then he'll go away and program it all in and come back to me and say, how does this sound? And I'm like, yeah, maybe change this. And then we go back and forth and I think that's an advantage of how we work”

RTS: “Yeah, it's an impressive sound on Smitten. Who produced the album?”

HBG: “It was kind of a co-production. Ian Berryman, Simon Ashcroft and then Hugo. It was a mash of all three of them”.

RTS: “So you're happy to stand back and just go, I like that?”

HBG: “Yeah, well, I feel like I'm always producing everything because I'm saying, I like this, I like this, make it sound like that, do that. So I could put my name on everything, I just don't”.

RTS: “Do you think with progress through the other albums to Smitten that it has the sound you were looking for or do you think, we've still got places to go with the sound?”

HBG: “I think where we arrived at with Smitten, I was happy with that outcome. I feel satisfied artistically, but I do think we've got places to go still. I don't know where we're going to go next, I thought I was going to do an album that sounded exactly like Smitten and started writing the next project and I felt a bit bored. So, I don't know where I'm going to take it….”

RTS: “Well, there's also the worry of, what works once, will it work again? And there’s pressure on artists to constantly try and be different, try and come up with something completely new, whereas maybe sometimes all the fans say is, we love you as you are?.

HBG: “I agree. I felt that way with Smitten, that's why I wrote that record, because, fans who listen to us, got attached to the first record and they loved the twinkly synths and they love the guitar tones, which I do as well. When we wrote Unwanted, that was very much because we wanted those fun songs to play live. And I feel like we got that with that record. You know, some of those songs from that record are my favourite tracks to play live, like “Jealousy” and “You're So Vain”.

“I have the most fun when I'm playing those. So they serve that purpose. But with us, I don't really think that we follow trends.

You know, I've always said I love music from the 90s. If anything, we're trying to emulate that and  bring it into the modern day. And I never really feel like we're copying what's on TikTok or whatnot, if that makes sense. But I think that's just also who I am, just as a person. You know, I dress like, and I look like a Tim Burton character…That's not the norm, but that's what I like. So I don't really feel a need to do what everyone else is doing”.

RTS: “The Tim Burton “Wednesday” look is cool again. It never goes out of fashion. I think that look has always been there though not completely mainstream. Do people say anything about your look? I can't see why it would be a problem?”

HBG: “No, but it is to other people. I don't know why”.

RTS: “Really?”

HBG: “ Yeah, that I'm just doing it to get more people to talk about it, you know, they get offended that I look the way I look, like dark and gothic, but then we play these upbeat tracks. But I'm like, have you ever heard of The Cure?”

RTS:  “So maybe people just don't really know enough to understand the look and the music can go together without sounding doom laden?”

HBG: “Exactly”

RTS: “Have you thought of, obviously, maybe a few years to come, when you get superstardom of starting your own fashion chain?” 

HBG: “I'd love to because I feel like I have to scour the Internet for dark makeup or even dark clothing that I like. So I'd definitely love to do that because I feel like there's room for it”. 

RTS: Are you into the Tim Burton scene?”

HBG: “Yeah, yeah. I mean, everything that Tim Burton does, I think, is super cool. It's so goth and I feel like people really shy away from goth. And I feel like there's so much plain stuff out there in the world that when there's a little bit of darkness or goth, I definitely gravitate towards it. Anything that Tim Burton's done, I'll probably look into or watch just because I find it interesting”. 

RTS: You will soon be getting around the country for this Tour. Are you looking forward to that?”

HBG: “Yeah, very excited. I feel like it's a tour that is just for fun, if that makes sense. But it doesn't feel like there's a lot of pressure. It's smaller venues, more unique places that we don't usually go to or haven't been to in a while, so it's going to be really intimate and I'm excited to just bounce off the crowd”.

RTS: “And you've been doing festivals this Summer, any particular favourites?”

HBG: “I would say the Reading Festival stood out to me. We did a cover of "Zombie", The Cranberries song. That went down really well. Probably the best moment in the set. I almost thought we should have just played it ten times. That was definitely a standout moment”.

RTS: “That was the first time you played that song?”

HBG: “ Yeah, yeah, at Reading and Leeds. We'll probably play it on the tour just because it's fun to play. It's one of those songs that crosses over so many generations. 

RTS: “The Cranberries are an obvious touch point with your sound, you have been compared to many artists can that be a bit of a burden?”

HBG: “Oh, no, I don't mind it at all. I like it because I'm like, yeah, that's true. All of those artists have influenced me. And everything is just recycled in a way, but done your own way. I've pulled from all of those influences, you know, The Cranberries, The Cocteau Twins, The Cure. That's who I listen to, so”. 

RTS: “You grew up listening to all those artists, did you?”

HBG: “ Yeah and my dad likes ACDC, which I never really got into as much as he does, but he loves them, Travis, Bob Dylan, Oasis. Yeah, those artists just kind of stuck”. 

RTS: “A healthy mix to grow up on, for sure. Yeah. You've been a bit around the world as well recently, Japan and The USA, how was that for Pale Waves?”

HBG: “Amazing. I mean, I love going to Japan and recently went to South Korea, that was the first time we've ever been there. I mean, you never know what to expect when you're going somewhere for the first time, and it was just incredible. It was quite mad, actually. It was like royalty and K-pop stars, and it was just like, whoa, this is madness. You know, we're just this band from Manchester. But it was fun. The show was really good, and the production that we got for that show was probably the best it's been for any Smitten show”. 

RTS: “Really? In what way?”

HBG: “So, we hired in, the chandelier, the fog, but they sourced everything for us, and the stuff that they sourced was, just spot on. It was perfect. It was really satisfying because that was our last show for Smitten because it was what we pictured in our heads”.

RTS: “Wow. Was it a gothic feel to it?”

HBG: ”Yeah, it was so gothic. There was low fog just running throughout the set. It looked just like... “

RTS: “Sleepy Hollow?”

HBG: “Yeah, yeah. It was really cool.

RTS: “So, what about Japan? Was that the same?”

HBG: “Yeah, every time we go back to Japan, it's just incredible, and, you know, we're getting to the point where we're playing nearly the same capped venues that we play here in the UK, and we just love that, and every time we go back there, we seem to be able to play bigger venues, so we are very grateful for our kind Japanese fans. They're the best, and if I could go there every three months and play a show, I would. Yeah. I love it so much. Japan's just mind-blowing. Yeah, Tokyo and Kyoto is just like, whoa. I always spend extra days there when we go on tour because there's never enough time, and I want to do the tourist stuff”.

“When you're on tour, there's never enough time to go out and do those things because you've got soundcheck and you've got press. If there's a tour happening in Japan, I'll plan to go a week early. Then I'll feel satisfied with everything that I've done because I've spent time there and I've seen everything. I've not just seen the inside of the venue”.

RTS: And In America have you enjoyed your time there?”

HBG: “ Well, I wrote a lot of songs in LA and the guy that I like to write with the most, Simon, who produced a lot of the last record, lives there, so I have to go there because that's where his studio is. There's definitely a different mentality to writing songs there versus here. I would say here it's a lot slower, which is good and bad, you know. You spend more time on it, but then it takes forever to get it done and then by the time you get it done, you're kind of sick of it”.

“Whereas, although sometimes you do it too fast and then you don't spend enough time on it, it's like you need to meet in the middle somewhere”. 

RTS: “Are you now at the point looking forwards and what's coming up?”

HBG: “We've got about nine new songs, but like I said, I just don't know if they're in the right direction for the next Pale Waves thing. I don't know whether it's going to be an EP. I want to do an EP instead of an album because I don't want to commit to all of that world. I just want to get new music out. The world's moving so fast”.

RTS: “With that we are done, another interview complete”

HBG: “ Yeah, I've had quite a lot of press recently, but it's all in favour of the tour”.

RTS: ”There's trouble with being the boss, you know. Everyone wants a piece of you”

HBG: “Absolutely”

OCTOBER

Sat 11 GLASGOW Barrowland (Tenement Trail Festival)

Mon 13 SUNDERLAND Old Fire Station

Tue 14 STOKE Sugarmill

Thu 16 MANCHESTER O2 Ritz

Fri 17 CARDIFF Tramshed

Sat 18 WREXHAM Rocking Chair

Mon 20 BRIGHTON Chalk

Tue 21 SOUTHAMPTON Engine Rooms

Wed 22 NORWICH Waterfront

Thu 23 BOURNEMOUTH Old Fire Station

Sat 25 OXFORD O2 Academy

Tue 28 DUBLIN Academy

Wed 29 BELFAST Limelight

Thu 30 CORK Cyprus Avenue

Tickets available from: https://palewaves.co.uk/live/

Interview for Return To Sound by Dan Reddick